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Posted by: trombone4 ® 06/23/2003, 11:07:12 Author Profile Mail author |
I've been playing trombone for 50 years and last year everything started to go. My upper register became less and less and I leak air like crazy. I also notice that I become very wet around my chin area. At first I was chalking it up to too much mouthpiece pressure but then I got a quiver in my long tones and notes in the upper register would break into what sounds like three notes or tones almost multiphonics. Nothing comes out easy anymore and many times it is a blatty or harsh loud sound. Does this fit anyone's description of embouchure dystonia? Jim Butler |
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Re: I think I have dystonia Re: I think I have dystonia -- trombone4 Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Di Tod ®
06/23/2003, 22:26:56
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I,m so sorry to read of your condition - it is a very distressing time.
I'm a bass clarinet player who has also been playing a long time (35 yrs)as you've probably read on the BB, but your symptoms sound similar to mine. However, a trombone player friend put me on to a website: www.embouchures.com. This website has a book written by Lucinda Lewis, a horn player who lost ability to play and then regained it again with great perserverance.
She describes the condition as an "Embouchure Malaise" or over-use syndrome and has detailed directions as to how to regain your embouchure if you are a brass player - it takes a long time. Although I have now been diagnosed by several neurologists as having a jaw or embouchure dystonia I thought I would go ahead and try some of these execises. Anything's worth a go! I wish there was something like it for wind players.
Also I have been taking a high-quality magnesium supplement, as it is supposed to restore damaged muscles.
Good luck with it all
Di
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Re: I think I have dystonia Re: Re: I think I have dystonia -- Di Tod Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: trombone4 ®
06/24/2003, 09:05:09
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I have Lucinda's Book and am following Dr. McGrail's advice on exercises to do to overcome what might be a hot spot or even a fat herniation. It also could be what he describes as muscle thinning and stretching. You know how it is you grasp for straws. I have had to quit a couple of bands and may end up quitting a couple more.I've turned down jobs left and right. I started to deteriorate a whole lot after last October and nothing has seemed to help and I have sort of willed my way through a lot of gigs but now it's to the point where I dread getting a call for one let alone going out to play one. Man I never had a problem. I was on the road playing jazz back in the early 60's and then had a career in Air Force Bands retired from that and went right on playing up until the past few months when it all went. Trying to get those first notes out in the morning is not a pretty thing to hear and then it kind of goes down hill from there. Last year I couldn't hold a long tone without a quiver or shake in the sound. I couldn't feel it in my lips but to play a straight tone without the shake in the sound was impossible. I finally got rid of that problem. If I don't have dystonia I imagine that I have a lot of scarring in my lip and whether or not laying off the horn for months or a year would help is anbody's guess. Dr. McGrail doesn't advocate people to stop playing while using his four basic exercises because he says you cannot do anymore damage to the lip. Onward and upward.
Jim Butler
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Re: I think I have dystonia Re: Re: I think I have dystonia -- trombone4 Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: drums911 ®
06/25/2003, 18:26:54
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I can certainly relate to your situation. I am not a medical professional and the following is only my opinion.
I have one piece of advice: get a proper diagnosis...and do it BEFORE getting involved with any excercises. I learned the hard way that excercises, particularly those aimed at strengthening "unruly" muscles can accelerate the onset of dystonia and I believe can make it worse than it might otherwise be. I went far too long undiagnosed and not knowing what was occurring. I had no knowledge of D & neither did my physicaian and I could not even conceive of anything other than some sort of muscle damage or problem. However, Dystonia's root source has to do with mental "curcuits" and the nervous system...not muscles. Using/overusing muscles can generate dystonia. Muscle failure is secondary. I believe dystonia may be reversable to varying degrees perhaps by correctly re-mapping neural curcuits. That will again involve causitivley & carefully directing muscle use. But again, the causing & directing would be the key elements; not the fact that muscles are involved. I don't know of Dr. McGrail & if he's knowledgable in dystonia that's one thing, but if not, I would definitley hold off on any muscle "excercise". For my particular situation; I have absolutely no doubt at all that my D would be nowhere near as bad as it is if I'd clued in early on as to what it really was and addressed it accordingly. Good luck.
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Re: To trombone4 Re: Re: I think I have dystonia -- trombone4 Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Di Tod ®
07/10/2003, 06:26:14
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I have been away interstate to visit a neurologist who I believed might help.
Your symptoms, time frame and even time (Oct 2002 - mine was Dec 2002)all sound very similar to my own.The neurologist I have just seen also cautioned against practising to "strengthen muscles"; he thought that as many as 1 in 4 embouchure dystonias could progress to becoming full dystonias - of the jaw, speech, tongue, etc.
Like Drums911 and so many others I guess, I went for far too long thinking I could practice my way out of tremor and embouchure weakness and wonder now if I could still be playing if I'd backed off earlier or had any knowledge of dystonia.
Still, like you, I'm going to give it a go; I'm planning on 5 mins every hour, but just to the point when it begins to "go" and not past it.
Good luck!
all the best,
Di
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Re: To trombone4 Re: Re: To trombone4 -- Di Tod Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: trombone4 ®
07/10/2003, 07:42:30
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Well I've been pushing through gigs the last week or so with three in a row last week and one last night. I find that if I get mad enough I can get it out of the horn...kind of. I'm planning on seeing Dr. Frucht in NYC sometime in August.
Jim
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Re: To trombone4 Re: Re: To trombone4 -- trombone4 Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Di Tod ®
07/11/2003, 05:15:44
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Good on you and best of luck with it all!
Di
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Re: To trombone4 Re: Re: To trombone4 -- Di Tod Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: trombone4 ®
08/30/2003, 11:06:46
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